[ejabberd] Sources of the ejabberd installer

Badlop badlop at gmail.com
Fri Aug 17 00:17:23 MSD 2007


2007/8/14, Sander Devrieze <s.devrieze at pandora.be>:
> As I already said, it's true that Sergei was a bit economical with
> information, but Mickaël *also* was economical in his answers.
> Conclusion: no fluent communication, but that's no big deal. btw: for
> small messages, Jabber is a better communication channel ;-)

If the lack of fluent communication confronts two person which are
highly involved in the ejabberd project, and I can see that they
aren't going to solve their issues at all... then I consider it a big
deal because it has a negative effect in ejabberd.


> > In
> > fact, I think Sergei Golovan is in general very aggresive and rude
> > with Mickael Remond. Not only in this thread,
>
> Where is Sergei very aggresive and rude with Mickaël Rémond in this
> thread? I don't see any rudeness against Mickaël himself. Sergei is
> just to-the-point and maybe a bit unclear, but I don't see any attack
> or something. Please specify before accusing someone.

The aggressiveness is not expressed with insults. It is expressed with
the implicit accusation of violating the GPL, and later rejecting to
clearly explain the issue.

Mickael is not the only person that didn't understand Sergei claims: I
didn't either. So I asked Sergei privately for several minutes until I
finally understood the topic. Obviously I lack knowledge and
experience working in open source and free software projects, that's
why I try to learn.

Then, I requested Sergei to explain the license problem publicly in
this mailing list, but he rejected. I decided to explain his findings
myself, instead of working in my GSoC duties or going to the beach. As
you can see, Sergei does not hesitate to critic and expose the
problems, but later he does not backup his critics with a clear
explanation and reasoning. I always try to explain the issues, and you
also do, why Sergei didn't in this case?


> > Maybe there's something personal with him.
>
> Where does Sergei say something about Mickaël himself? I only see
> Sergei saying things about *things*, not humans.

I just proposed that idea as a possible explanation for his
aggressiveness. Do you have other explanations?


> > In fact, I think it's not only Sergei who sporadically attack Mickael
> > for any possible reason he can find: Sander Devrieze has also
> > experience being extremely critical with Mickael,
>
> I *never* attacked Mickaël. Moreover, I believe he is a nice guy. So,
> please specify.

Sorry, I didn't explain correctly before; I mean: 'sporadically
attacks to the ideas and/or work and/or motivation of Mickael'.


> The only thing I
> see is that Sergei has some criticism about the installer.

Obviously, you didn't read between lines (like I did) the accusation
of violating the GPL that Sergei launched against Mickael. And we are
speaking about GPL violation, it's not a small accusation. In fact, I
consider violating the license is the worst thing that a person can do
with an open source program.


> > I'm ashamed of seeing such aggressiveness in public forums,
>
> I don't see anything wrong. Please specify.
> ...
> Specify.

Here we go with the results of my research.


http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2007-July/002834.html
http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2007-July/002843.html

Here Sergei disregards the binary installers of Process-One as 'a
systemic error'. He opposes to Linux binary installers because it's
difficult or impossible to make them widely compatible.

Unfortunately, not all Linux distributions provide an ejabberd
package. Process-One tries to fill this gap, but it's obvious that
Sergei Golovan would prefer to NOT publish general binary installers
at all. Let's make a poll, and let's see what do ejabberd users
prefer. In the mean time, you might see how Sergei expresses opinions
as true facts, not as personal opinions.

Also, Sergei complains that the binary installers do not include an
Erlang compiler. If he considers that important, why didn't he submit
a bug report? I couldn't find any previous reference to this topic by
him. By the way, it seems this issue was worked four months ago, and
the installers of the next ejabberd version will finally include a
compiler:
https://support.process-one.net/browse/EJAB-215

Sergei recommends other people to submit bugs to the bug tracker in
order to get attention to the problems:
http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/node/245
However, he does not report bugs himself. Isn't that incoherent?


http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2007-August/002944.html

Here Sergei accuses Mickael of infringing the GPL. But he deliberately
refuses to clearly explain the topic, generating in this way
uncertainty, noise, and a sense of conspirancy. Reading between lines
of the between lines, it seems as if Sergei is generating FUD against
Mickael. FUD! [1]: one of the worst things that people can do to
destroy projects or persons. Note that both Sergei and Mickael are
long-run contributors to ejabberd, so I find it disgusting when he
behaves in such an unfriendly and uncollaborative manner.


http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2007-August/002946.html

Here, it seems Sergei finally lost the patience, seeing that Mickael
does not understand the reason of the accusation  :)


http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2006-April/001703.html

Now I find this funny. Note that I agree with Sergei: a feature that
isn't documented can't be used! But don't you consider that the
writing of that email is more destructive than constructive? When I
read this message a year ago I agreed with Sergei, but found the tone
was insulting.


http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/node/1544#comment-42104

In this recent forum thread, Sergei reports how old mod_pubsub is in
the latest stable ejabberd release. The interesting part here is that
the first time he publicly expresses this problem is in a thread
called 'How to move openfire to ejabberd?'. If Sergei considers that
the development cycle is absurdily large (like I do), why didn't he
expressed it in a new thread in the ejabberd mailing list, or directly
to the ejabberd release managers, explaining why it is a bad idea, and
how it hurts ejabberd?


http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-July/016098.html

Yet another example: some weeks ago Mickael was making SVN commits to
ejabberd SVN with changes regarding CDATA. Since Sergei was suspicious
that those strange changes could be protocol-incompatible, he decided
to check it. However, he did not make preliminary contacts with the
author of the changes, or requested advice from other ejabberd
developers in the ejabberd mailing list. Instead, he went directly to
ask in the Jabber Software Foundation's Standard mailing list. It took
Sergei only some hours to bring the topic to a public Jabber forum.
Mickael had not even finished committing the changes!

As I understand the whole mail thread, Sergei initially tried to
present Mickael as incompetent and malicious, but failed. Let's check
the same thread:

http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-July/016161.html

Here Sergei accuses Mickael of deliberately adding code to ejabberd to
break compatibility.


http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-July/016156.html

You can read the same accusation here, and this time Sergei says it
very clearly:
Sergei to Mickael: ``The main mistake you did is that you BREAK THINGS.''
Note that the capital letters are original from Sergei's email.

Here we see again rudeness in action:
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-July/016113.html

To summarize this exposition: I think that I provided strong
supporting evidences to the claims that I posted in my previous email.


I started this offtopic thread to discuss about some particular
aspects of Sergei Golovan public behavior which I consider damaging
both to the ejabberd project and to himself. Note that I chatted with
him before bringing the topic to a public forum, and he allowed me to
expose it here.

I'm sure Sergei comments are always headed to improve ejabberd. It
seems he does not care a bit about being gently or diplomatic. And I
usually agree with his reasonable arguments, his interesting advices
and his useful critics. However, following a strategy of offensive and
bitter comments, he does not get his proposals taken seriously. In
fact, he gets the opposite reaction: his proposals are ignored and he
becomes unpopular, and controversial.

Now he has three options when issuing a request, proposal or critic:
a) be diplomatic, constructive and positive
b) continue with the current trend
c) increase the rudeness

I'm fairly sure that only the path a) will bring his proposals to success.

In this thread I deliberately avoided to discuss about Mickael's
behaviour (past and present), and his possible mistakes as project and
release manager of ejabberd during the last 3 years. That can be
another topic of discussion, in case anybody is interested. And of
course I didn't comment my own mistakes, which may allow to fill the
mailboxes for a full month :)


PD: If I annoyed or offended Sergei, Sander, Mickael, or any other
person, please forgive me. My only interest was always to help solve
those issues and try to make ejabberd a better and friendlier project
to contribute to, and to be proud of contribute to.


More information about the ejabberd mailing list